Discussion:
Caucasian Club in Contra Costa County, California
(too old to reply)
Steve Dufour
2003-09-17 21:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Posted on Wed, Sep. 17, 2003

Caucasian Club meets resistance
By Danielle Samaniego
CONTRA COSTA TIMES

OAKLEY - Lisa McClelland insists that she is not a racist.

The 15-year-old freshman at Freedom High School says her campaign to
start a Caucasian Club on campus is an effort to bolster diversity,
not promote bigotry.

"It's not racist because we're not excluding anyone, and we're just
trying to solve the issues of racial disparity," says Lisa, whose
ethnic background is American Indian, Latino, Dutch, German, Italian
and Irish.

Lisa says she and many of her friends feel slighted by other school
clubs that cater to specific cultures and races, such as the Black
Student Union and the Asian Club.

The Caucasian Club would be open to everyone of all ethnic
backgrounds, she says. She envisions activities such as fund-raisers
and field trips to places that emphasize history, such as museums.

Since launching her campaign three weeks ago, Lisa says she has gotten
245 signatures from students, adults and others on and off campus who
support the formation of the club. She intends to get hundreds more
before submitting the petition to Freedom High principal Eric Volta
this week.

Others are uneasy about the proposal. It comes in the aftermath of
racial tension at Freedom High and elsewhere within the Liberty Union
High School District.

Freedom High teacher Jesse Gossett, who is African-American, found a
noose made out of a shoelace hanging on the doorknob of his classroom
in 2001. Last year, a swastika and anti-minority fliers were found in
the boys' restroom.

Tension mounted again in May 2002 when a roped noose was discovered
hanging from a redwood tree in the southern portion of the Liberty
High School campus quad in Brentwood. The incident led to a
400-student protest against the administration for not finding the
culprit (a male student later confessed to the act), and the district
faced ire from the National Association for the Advancement of Colored
People, which asked for the tree to be removed.

Darnell Turner, first vice president of the East County chapter of the
NAACP, said he believes the Caucasian Club will create racial
division.

"It will not allow us to heal that divide that we've tried to overcome
in the past couple of years," said Turner, who spoke out during the
2002 Liberty High incidents. "If her motivation is to bring harmony,
as she alleges, this is not the way to go."

The grass-roots effort has come primarily in the form of sheets of
binder paper passed around in class with the written topper
"Caucasian/White Club Petition." She also has gone door-to-door in the
community to gather signatures.

Freedom freshman Tyleisha Crooks, 14, who is African-American, signed
the petition.

"It'd be tight because they can learn more about their history,"
Tyleisha said.

Lisa's neighbor Elliott Perez, a 14-year-old Freedom sophomore who is
Latino and white, signed as well.

"I think it's fair for white people to have their own club because
every other race has their own club," Elliott said.

Gossett says he does not have issues with the concept of a Caucasian
Club as long as it is positive.

"If it's going to be helpful then I don't have a problem with it," he
said. "I'm kind of a positive person, and I tend to look on the
positive side of things. I think that probably some groups want to
feel a part of the whole community and, in that way, they're
expressing themselves in a positive way."

The NAACP's Turner said the club's concept sounded similar to former
Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke's 1989 election campaign when he
claimed his National Association of the Advancement of White People
was also about harmony. Turner added that organizations such as his
and other ethnic clubs have never been associated historically with
bigotry.

"It was a way to identify the members of that group and unify," he
said. "When we use the word 'white' or 'Caucasian' or whatever, it has
always been associated with racial bigotry. Using that term opens up
old wounds, and we don't need to go there."

The school board decided not to remove the tree but rather
re-establish the Liberty High quad as a unity plaza to promote respect
and multiculturalism. A garden, an information kiosk and a showcase
for student artwork are planned. The plaza is expected to cost from
$50,000 to $60,000 and open by spring.

"We've worked very hard over the last year to have a real positive
feeling about this school, and I don't know if a club of this name
would upset that," Volta, the principal. "We have clubs that support
the same thing," he said, referring to the Power of Unity club on
campus.

The Power of Unity is an umbrella organization for the cultural clubs
at Freedom and is similar in its concept to Liberty's unity plaza, he
said.

Freedom High activities director Dana Johnston said students
interested in forming a club would need to first find an adviser, then
create a constitution, which would have to be approved by the school's
club council members, the Associated Student Body and Johnston
herself. She refused to comment further.

Ultimately, it is Volta who will give the final approval. Aware of
this, Lisa says if her club is rejected, she plans to protest or take
legal action if necessary.

Lisa's friend Kristine Maguire, 14, who signed the petition, says she
understands the club's name could immediately put some people off but
that attitudes might be swayed if they grasped its overall purpose.

"If they really knew what the club was about, they wouldn't say it was
racist," she said. "You've got to get to know the club before you
judge it."

Freedom High's student population is composed of about 63 percent
whites, 26 percent Latinos and 4 percent African-Americans, along with
small percentages of Filipinos, American Indians and Pacific
Islanders.

Until two years ago, when Lisa moved to Oakley, the teenager found
herself immersed in diversity while growing up in Richmond and later
Martinez. Her distinct style is derivative of who she is, from her
bleach-splashed hair to the red-rimmed glasses she sports without
lenses. On a recent afternoon, she spoke with conviction even as she
fidgeted with a paper, inked stars and the letters "O-z-z-y" marked
across her left hand.

Her mother, Debbi Neely, says she always has been open-minded toward
others and taught her children to do the same.

"I personally think it all comes from the home," Neely says of
bigotry. "You learn it from your past, your families. Mostly kids her
age today are like, 'Why? Why is this still an issue?'"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reach Danielle Samaniego at 925-779-7189 or ***@cctimes.com.
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-18 04:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Hey what can I say? Uncle Tom youngens supporting this? They really do not
fully understand the nature of the white man. They should also not call the
NAACP on such an issue (maybe they came because it got media attention?).
What the hell is removing a tree supposed to do? Tell people it's yet
another victory for the NAACP, so keep the donations coming? For a problem
like this, organized racism, you need a specialist. You don't call a
gardener when you have engine problems. You don't call a chef when you have
PC trouble. You don't call a white man when your white woman needs good
lovin. The NAACP is no specialist for problem solving for blacks. Their
not specialists for getting respect for black people and showing what can
happen if you continue to insult blacks. People can predict their
responses. For this type of situation, you have to call on a man who knows
how to solve the problem. A man who knows how to tell it like it is and not
bite his tongue. A man who strikes fear in the hearts of white people. A
man who can make that cracker girl not think about ever starting a group
like that again. You need Minister Farrakhan to handle a job like that - a
specialist!
--
This site is something else! www.unclet.netfirms.com
Post by Steve Dufour
Posted on Wed, Sep. 17, 2003
Caucasian Club meets resistance
By Danielle Samaniego
CONTRA COSTA TIMES
OAKLEY - Lisa McClelland insists that she is not a racist.
The 15-year-old freshman at Freedom High School says her campaign to
start a Caucasian Club on campus is an effort to bolster diversity,
not promote bigotry.
"It's not racist because we're not excluding anyone, and we're just
trying to solve the issues of racial disparity," says Lisa, whose
ethnic background is American Indian, Latino, Dutch, German, Italian
and Irish.
Lisa says she and many of her friends feel slighted by other school
clubs that cater to specific cultures and races, such as the Black
Student Union and the Asian Club.
The Caucasian Club would be open to everyone of all ethnic
backgrounds, she says. She envisions activities such as fund-raisers
and field trips to places that emphasize history, such as museums.
Since launching her campaign three weeks ago, Lisa says she has gotten
245 signatures from students, adults and others on and off campus who
support the formation of the club. She intends to get hundreds more
before submitting the petition to Freedom High principal Eric Volta
this week.
Others are uneasy about the proposal. It comes in the aftermath of
racial tension at Freedom High and elsewhere within the Liberty Union
High School District.
Freedom High teacher Jesse Gossett, who is African-American, found a
noose made out of a shoelace hanging on the doorknob of his classroom
in 2001. Last year, a swastika and anti-minority fliers were found in
the boys' restroom.
Tension mounted again in May 2002 when a roped noose was discovered
hanging from a redwood tree in the southern portion of the Liberty
High School campus quad in Brentwood. The incident led to a
400-student protest against the administration for not finding the
culprit (a male student later confessed to the act), and the district
faced ire from the National Association for the Advancement of Colored
People, which asked for the tree to be removed.
Darnell Turner, first vice president of the East County chapter of the
NAACP, said he believes the Caucasian Club will create racial
division.
"It will not allow us to heal that divide that we've tried to overcome
in the past couple of years," said Turner, who spoke out during the
2002 Liberty High incidents. "If her motivation is to bring harmony,
as she alleges, this is not the way to go."
The grass-roots effort has come primarily in the form of sheets of
binder paper passed around in class with the written topper
"Caucasian/White Club Petition." She also has gone door-to-door in the
community to gather signatures.
Freedom freshman Tyleisha Crooks, 14, who is African-American, signed
the petition.
"It'd be tight because they can learn more about their history,"
Tyleisha said.
Lisa's neighbor Elliott Perez, a 14-year-old Freedom sophomore who is
Latino and white, signed as well.
"I think it's fair for white people to have their own club because
every other race has their own club," Elliott said.
Gossett says he does not have issues with the concept of a Caucasian
Club as long as it is positive.
"If it's going to be helpful then I don't have a problem with it," he
said. "I'm kind of a positive person, and I tend to look on the
positive side of things. I think that probably some groups want to
feel a part of the whole community and, in that way, they're
expressing themselves in a positive way."
The NAACP's Turner said the club's concept sounded similar to former
Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke's 1989 election campaign when he
claimed his National Association of the Advancement of White People
was also about harmony. Turner added that organizations such as his
and other ethnic clubs have never been associated historically with
bigotry.
"It was a way to identify the members of that group and unify," he
said. "When we use the word 'white' or 'Caucasian' or whatever, it has
always been associated with racial bigotry. Using that term opens up
old wounds, and we don't need to go there."
The school board decided not to remove the tree but rather
re-establish the Liberty High quad as a unity plaza to promote respect
and multiculturalism. A garden, an information kiosk and a showcase
for student artwork are planned. The plaza is expected to cost from
$50,000 to $60,000 and open by spring.
"We've worked very hard over the last year to have a real positive
feeling about this school, and I don't know if a club of this name
would upset that," Volta, the principal. "We have clubs that support
the same thing," he said, referring to the Power of Unity club on
campus.
The Power of Unity is an umbrella organization for the cultural clubs
at Freedom and is similar in its concept to Liberty's unity plaza, he
said.
Freedom High activities director Dana Johnston said students
interested in forming a club would need to first find an adviser, then
create a constitution, which would have to be approved by the school's
club council members, the Associated Student Body and Johnston
herself. She refused to comment further.
Ultimately, it is Volta who will give the final approval. Aware of
this, Lisa says if her club is rejected, she plans to protest or take
legal action if necessary.
Lisa's friend Kristine Maguire, 14, who signed the petition, says she
understands the club's name could immediately put some people off but
that attitudes might be swayed if they grasped its overall purpose.
"If they really knew what the club was about, they wouldn't say it was
racist," she said. "You've got to get to know the club before you
judge it."
Freedom High's student population is composed of about 63 percent
whites, 26 percent Latinos and 4 percent African-Americans, along with
small percentages of Filipinos, American Indians and Pacific
Islanders.
Until two years ago, when Lisa moved to Oakley, the teenager found
herself immersed in diversity while growing up in Richmond and later
Martinez. Her distinct style is derivative of who she is, from her
bleach-splashed hair to the red-rimmed glasses she sports without
lenses. On a recent afternoon, she spoke with conviction even as she
fidgeted with a paper, inked stars and the letters "O-z-z-y" marked
across her left hand.
Her mother, Debbi Neely, says she always has been open-minded toward
others and taught her children to do the same.
"I personally think it all comes from the home," Neely says of
bigotry. "You learn it from your past, your families. Mostly kids her
age today are like, 'Why? Why is this still an issue?'"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Steve Dufour
2003-09-18 14:51:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Hey what can I say? Uncle Tom youngens supporting this? They really do not
fully understand the nature of the white man. They should also not call the
NAACP on such an issue (maybe they came because it got media attention?).
What the hell is removing a tree supposed to do? Tell people it's yet
another victory for the NAACP, so keep the donations coming? For a problem
like this, organized racism, you need a specialist. You don't call a
gardener when you have engine problems. You don't call a chef when you have
PC trouble. You don't call a white man when your white woman needs good
lovin. The NAACP is no specialist for problem solving for blacks. Their
not specialists for getting respect for black people and showing what can
happen if you continue to insult blacks. People can predict their
responses. For this type of situation, you have to call on a man who knows
how to solve the problem. A man who knows how to tell it like it is and not
bite his tongue. A man who strikes fear in the hearts of white people. A
man who can make that cracker girl not think about ever starting a group
like that again. You need Minister Farrakhan to handle a job like that - a
specialist!
I think that Farrakhan would support her idea.
Riverman
2003-09-18 20:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Hey what can I say? Uncle Tom youngens supporting this? They really do not
fully understand the nature of the white man. They should also not call the
NAACP on such an issue (maybe they came because it got media attention?).
What the hell is removing a tree supposed to do? Tell people it's yet
another victory for the NAACP, so keep the donations coming? For a problem
like this, organized racism, you need a specialist. You don't call a
gardener when you have engine problems. You don't call a chef when you have
PC trouble. You don't call a white man when your white woman needs good
lovin. The NAACP is no specialist for problem solving for blacks. Their
not specialists for getting respect for black people and showing what can
happen if you continue to insult blacks. People can predict their
responses. For this type of situation, you have to call on a man who knows
how to solve the problem. A man who knows how to tell it like it is and not
bite his tongue. A man who strikes fear in the hearts of white people. A
man who can make that cracker girl not think about ever starting a group
like that again. You need Minister Farrakhan to handle a job like that - a
specialist!
I think that Farrakhan would support her idea.
I am for a Caucasian Club that organizes white kids to fight
racism,classism,and the institutional oppression running rampant in
the schools today.
I am against it if it is just a cover for white kids to get together
and bash Blacks and other people of color.
Poop Dogg
2003-09-18 21:12:06 UTC
Permalink
"Riverman" wrote in message ...
Post by Riverman
I am for a Caucasian Club that organizes white kids to fight
racism,classism,and the institutional oppression running rampant in
the schools today.
I am against it if it is just a cover for white kids to get together
and bash Blacks and other people of color.
But it's okay for blacks and other people of color to form their own
groups where they bash white people?
Steve Dufour
2003-09-19 02:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Poop Dogg
Post by Riverman
I am for a Caucasian Club that organizes white kids to fight
racism,classism,and the institutional oppression running rampant in
the schools today.
I am against it if it is just a cover for white kids to get together
and bash Blacks and other people of color.
But it's okay for blacks and other people of color to form their own
groups where they bash white people?
I have a feeling the key word for him is "organizes". :-)
Riverman
2003-09-19 21:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by Poop Dogg
Post by Riverman
I am for a Caucasian Club that organizes white kids to fight
racism,classism,and the institutional oppression running rampant in
the schools today.
I am against it if it is just a cover for white kids to get together
and bash Blacks and other people of color.
But it's okay for blacks and other people of color to form their own
groups where they bash white people?
I have a feeling the key word for him is "organizes". :-)
Yes,thats right,ORGANIZE!White kids are also oppressed by the school
system that teaches them to become good little consumers of capitalist
junk and prepares them to manage the corporate state in all its naked
greed and cruelty.By uniting with black and Latino kids,they free
themselves as they help others gain their liberation.
H. Reader
2003-09-19 23:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Riverman
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by Poop Dogg
Post by Riverman
I am for a Caucasian Club that organizes white kids to fight
racism,classism,and the institutional oppression running rampant in
the schools today.
I am against it if it is just a cover for white kids to get together
and bash Blacks and other people of color.
But it's okay for blacks and other people of color to form their own
groups where they bash white people?
I have a feeling the key word for him is "organizes". :-)
Yes,thats right,ORGANIZE!White kids are also oppressed by the school
system that teaches them to become good little consumers of capitalist
junk and prepares them to manage the corporate state in all its naked
greed and cruelty.By uniting with black and Latino kids,they free
themselves as they help others gain their liberation.
Oh my ...
Steve Dufour
2003-09-20 03:14:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Riverman
Post by Steve Dufour
I have a feeling the key word for him is "organizes". :-)
Yes,thats right,ORGANIZE!White kids are also oppressed by the school
system that teaches them to become good little consumers of capitalist
junk and prepares them to manage the corporate state in all its naked
greed and cruelty.By uniting with black and Latino kids,they free
themselves as they help others gain their liberation.
But who is going to be doing the organizing?
Riverman
2003-09-19 21:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Poop Dogg
"Riverman" wrote in message ...
Post by Riverman
I am for a Caucasian Club that organizes white kids to fight
racism,classism,and the institutional oppression running rampant in
the schools today.
I am against it if it is just a cover for white kids to get together
and bash Blacks and other people of color.
But it's okay for blacks and other people of color to form their own
groups where they bash white people?
Thats not what they do.They are there to provide a safe haven for
minority students who feel alienated within the predominately
Caucasian environment.They don't have time to play petty"hate
whitey"games.
Revenant
2003-09-19 21:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Riverman
Thats not what they do.They are there to provide a safe haven for
minority students who feel alienated within the predominately
Caucasian environment.They don't have time to play petty"hate
whitey"games.
Some places that may be true, but we're talking about California Hoss...
it's awful hard to say there are very many places in California that
qualify as predominately Caucasian environments.
H. Reader
2003-09-19 23:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Riverman
Post by Poop Dogg
"Riverman" wrote in message ...
Post by Riverman
I am for a Caucasian Club that organizes white kids to fight
racism,classism,and the institutional oppression running rampant in
the schools today.
I am against it if it is just a cover for white kids to get together
and bash Blacks and other people of color.
But it's okay for blacks and other people of color to form their own
groups where they bash white people?
Thats not what they do.
Uh-huh ... one word: MEChA.
Post by Riverman
They are there to provide a safe haven for
minority students who feel alienated within the predominately
Caucasian environment.They don't have time to play petty"hate
whitey"games.
Oh my ...
Steve Dufour
2003-09-20 02:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Riverman
Post by Poop Dogg
But it's okay for blacks and other people of color to form their own
groups where they bash white people?
Thats not what they do.They are there to provide a safe haven for
minority students who feel alienated within the predominately
Caucasian environment.They don't have time to play petty"hate
whitey"games.
Glad to hear it.
The Pervert
2003-09-20 14:52:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by Riverman
Post by Poop Dogg
But it's okay for blacks and other people of color to form their own
groups where they bash white people?
Thats not what they do.They are there to provide a safe haven for
minority students who feel alienated within the predominately
Caucasian environment.They don't have time to play petty"hate
whitey"games.
Glad to hear it.
But I don't completely believe it.
H. Reader
2003-09-19 05:25:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Riverman
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Hey what can I say? Uncle Tom youngens supporting this? They really do not
fully understand the nature of the white man. They should also not call the
NAACP on such an issue (maybe they came because it got media attention?).
What the hell is removing a tree supposed to do? Tell people it's yet
another victory for the NAACP, so keep the donations coming? For a problem
like this, organized racism, you need a specialist. You don't call a
gardener when you have engine problems. You don't call a chef when you have
PC trouble. You don't call a white man when your white woman needs good
lovin. The NAACP is no specialist for problem solving for blacks.
Their
Post by Riverman
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
not specialists for getting respect for black people and showing what can
happen if you continue to insult blacks. People can predict their
responses. For this type of situation, you have to call on a man who knows
how to solve the problem. A man who knows how to tell it like it is and not
bite his tongue. A man who strikes fear in the hearts of white people. A
man who can make that cracker girl not think about ever starting a group
like that again. You need Minister Farrakhan to handle a job like that - a
specialist!
I think that Farrakhan would support her idea.
I am for a Caucasian Club that organizes white kids to fight
racism,classism,and the institutional oppression running rampant in
the schools today.
I am against it if it is just a cover for white kids to get together
and bash Blacks and other people of color.
Maybe they just want to exchange tatter-tot recipes and play some
tennis now and then.
cameron
2003-09-18 17:06:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Hey what can I say? Uncle Tom youngens supporting this? They really do not
fully understand the nature of the white man. They should also not call the
NAACP on such an issue (maybe they came because it got media attention?).
What the hell is removing a tree supposed to do? Tell people it's yet
another victory for the NAACP, so keep the donations coming? For a problem
like this, organized racism, you need a specialist. You don't call a
gardener when you have engine problems. You don't call a chef when you have
PC trouble. You don't call a white man when your white woman needs good
lovin. The NAACP is no specialist for problem solving for blacks. Their
not specialists for getting respect for black people and showing what can
happen if you continue to insult blacks. People can predict their
responses. For this type of situation, you have to call on a man who knows
how to solve the problem. A man who knows how to tell it like it is and not
bite his tongue. A man who strikes fear in the hearts of white people. A
man who can make that cracker girl not think about ever starting a group
like that again. You need Minister Farrakhan to handle a job like that - a
specialist!
Minister Farrakhan a specialist in what feild? What has he done to
solve single parenthood among black teenage girls let alone the white
crackers. I would suggest that any black man that wants to be
respected try earning it instead of joining gangs.
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-19 16:44:27 UTC
Permalink
He is a specialist at raisng hell and instilling fear (that's right) into
the average white man.
Post by cameron
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Hey what can I say? Uncle Tom youngens supporting this? They really do not
fully understand the nature of the white man. They should also not call the
NAACP on such an issue (maybe they came because it got media
attention?).
Post by cameron
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
What the hell is removing a tree supposed to do? Tell people it's yet
another victory for the NAACP, so keep the donations coming? For a problem
like this, organized racism, you need a specialist. You don't call a
gardener when you have engine problems. You don't call a chef when you have
PC trouble. You don't call a white man when your white woman needs good
lovin. The NAACP is no specialist for problem solving for blacks.
Their
Post by cameron
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
not specialists for getting respect for black people and showing what can
happen if you continue to insult blacks. People can predict their
responses. For this type of situation, you have to call on a man who knows
how to solve the problem. A man who knows how to tell it like it is and not
bite his tongue. A man who strikes fear in the hearts of white people.
A
Post by cameron
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
man who can make that cracker girl not think about ever starting a group
like that again. You need Minister Farrakhan to handle a job like that - a
specialist!
Minister Farrakhan a specialist in what feild? What has he done to
solve single parenthood among black teenage girls let alone the white
crackers. I would suggest that any black man that wants to be
respected try earning it instead of joining gangs.
Marcus Cato
2003-09-19 17:53:20 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:44:27 GMT, "Jason Murray - The Great One"
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
He is a specialist at raisng hell and instilling fear (that's right) into
the average white man.
He doesn't instill fear in me. Doesn't even instill discomfort. He's
just the kind of clownish fool I'd want in charge of the opposition.
cameron
2003-09-20 17:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
He is a specialist at raisng hell and instilling fear (that's right) into
the average white man.
I guess there is something worse than brainwashed middleclass whites
on ARU. Here's some rhetoric for you: Since any black leader that may
have been more ambitious than fleecing their flock and acquiring a
white whore was murdered by the C.I.A. back in the sixties. The
average black man has had his fragile ego stoked by thier infinately
corruptable replacements, ie Farrakan, Jackson, Moon etc. Your
descendants (if you claim any), and any M and M wannabes are being
pumped daily by Rap "artists" and their jewish managers with negative
stereotypes that virtually guarantee they will grow up ignorant and
poor. I sincerely suggest that you wake up and grab a brain if you do
not want to remain indebted to the white man.
Poop Dogg
2003-09-18 21:11:04 UTC
Permalink
I'm all for creating a "Caucasian Club" for school students. I am
so fuckin' sick of certain groups who flaunt their race and form
race-based groups, but then scream bloody murder when whites try
to do the same.

This applies to religious groups too. Almost every high school in
America has a Christian student club. But recently I read of a
group of students who formed a "Satanism Club" at their school.
Oh, what an outcry among "concerned" Christian parents. Never
mind that the club really didn't discuss Satan at all, but rather
such subversive things as separation of church and state.
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-19 16:43:40 UTC
Permalink
"Others" are just following the brave examples of the black man. We are the
only ones who tell whites people to go fuck yourselves.
Post by Poop Dogg
I'm all for creating a "Caucasian Club" for school students. I am
so fuckin' sick of certain groups who flaunt their race and form
race-based groups, but then scream bloody murder when whites try
to do the same.
This applies to religious groups too. Almost every high school in
America has a Christian student club. But recently I read of a
group of students who formed a "Satanism Club" at their school.
Oh, what an outcry among "concerned" Christian parents. Never
mind that the club really didn't discuss Satan at all, but rather
such subversive things as separation of church and state.
cameron
2003-09-20 17:21:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
"Others" are just following the brave examples of the black man. We are the
only ones who tell whites people to go fuck yourselves.
The N.A.A.C.P. still has the integrity to call racism of any color. In
a multicultural society, you would do well to support them.
H. Reader
2003-09-20 18:06:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameron
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
"Others" are just following the brave examples of the black man. We are the
only ones who tell whites people to go fuck yourselves.
The N.A.A.C.P. still has the integrity to call racism of any color. In
a multicultural society, you would do well to support them.
Are you kidding? The NAACP lost its credibility and authority
years ago and is now just another organization pimping racial and
ethnic issues to keep itself in business.
cameron
2003-09-21 01:57:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by H. Reader
Post by cameron
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
"Others" are just following the brave examples of the black man. We are
the
Post by cameron
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
only ones who tell whites people to go fuck yourselves.
The N.A.A.C.P. still has the integrity to call racism of any color. In
a multicultural society, you would do well to support them.
Are you kidding? The NAACP lost its credibility and authority
years ago and is now just another organization pimping racial and
ethnic issues to keep itself in business.
Am I misinformed? Maybe the NAACP and the Nation of Islam are in the same business.
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-22 03:11:57 UTC
Permalink
Actually, this is a muti-racial society, not a multi-cultural one. If it
were multi-cultural, it would be like Canada with French and English on
everything. As long as one culture dominates, multi-culturalism is false.
Multiculrtuarlism was and can never survive in any country becuase some
group always want to be heard or wants their culture to be supreme.
Post by cameron
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
"Others" are just following the brave examples of the black man. We are the
only ones who tell whites people to go fuck yourselves.
The N.A.A.C.P. still has the integrity to call racism of any color. In
a multicultural society, you would do well to support them.
Steve Dufour
2003-09-22 15:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Actually, this is a muti-racial society, not a multi-cultural one. If it
were multi-cultural, it would be like Canada with French and English on
everything.
There is English and Spanish on most things, and Chinese lots of
times, where I live anyway, that's California.

As long as one culture dominates, multi-culturalism is false.
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Multiculrtuarlism was and can never survive in any country becuase some
group always want to be heard or wants their culture to be supreme.
I don't see what's wrong with that as long as they don't use force or
violence to do so.
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-22 16:42:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Actually, this is a muti-racial society, not a multi-cultural one. If it
were multi-cultural, it would be like Canada with French and English on
everything.
There is English and Spanish on most things, and Chinese lots of
times, where I live anyway, that's California.
As long as one culture dominates, multi-culturalism is false.
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Multiculrtuarlism was and can never survive in any country becuase some
group always want to be heard or wants their culture to be supreme.
I don't see what's wrong with that as long as they don't use force or
violence to do so.
They would have to... So you agree that there is no multi-cutluralism?
Steve Dufour
2003-09-22 22:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Actually, this is a muti-racial society, not a multi-cultural one. If
it
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
were multi-cultural, it would be like Canada with French and English on
everything.
There is English and Spanish on most things, and Chinese lots of
times, where I live anyway, that's California.
As long as one culture dominates, multi-culturalism is false.
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Multiculrtuarlism was and can never survive in any country becuase some
group always want to be heard or wants their culture to be supreme.
I don't see what's wrong with that as long as they don't use force or
violence to do so.
They would have to... So you agree that there is no multi-cutluralism?
I'm not sure what you mean by "multi-culturalism". But if you would
give the definition you want to use I will be happy to answer your
question.
H. Reader
2003-09-23 04:03:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Actually, this is a muti-racial society, not a multi-cultural one. If it
were multi-cultural, it would be like Canada with French and English on
everything.
There is English and Spanish on most things, and Chinese lots of
times, where I live anyway, that's California.
And those languages represent three cultures. No society
is, was, or ever can be multicultural. Learn the definition
of society.
Post by Steve Dufour
As long as one culture dominates, multi-culturalism is false.
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Multiculrtuarlism was and can never survive in any country becuase some
group always want to be heard or wants their culture to be supreme.
I don't see what's wrong with that as long as they don't use force or
violence to do so.
If you were a normal human, you'd want your culture to dominate,
because if it doesn't, some other culture will dominate you.
cameron
2003-09-22 16:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Actually, this is a muti-racial society, not a multi-cultural one. If it
were multi-cultural, it would be like Canada with French and English on
everything. As long as one culture dominates, multi-culturalism is false.
Multiculrtuarlism was and can never survive in any country becuase some
group always want to be heard or wants their culture to be supreme.
That's the beauty of multi-racial/multi-cultural societies. The levers
of control over the masses becomes diluted and complex for those that
want to consolidate public opinion. People like Farrakan and Moon will
always be on the fringes.
H. Reader
2003-09-23 04:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameron
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Actually, this is a muti-racial society, not a multi-cultural one. If it
were multi-cultural, it would be like Canada with French and English on
everything. As long as one culture dominates, multi-culturalism is false.
Multiculrtuarlism was and can never survive in any country becuase some
group always want to be heard or wants their culture to be supreme.
That's the beauty of multi-racial/multi-cultural societies. The levers
of control over the masses becomes diluted and complex for those that
want to consolidate public opinion.
Actually, the various groups become factions, each with a
leadership.
Post by cameron
People like Farrakan and Moon will
always be on the fringes.
And that has nothing to do with multiculturalism. It has to
do with their being megalomaniacal nut cases.
Marcus Cato
2003-09-23 05:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameron
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Actually, this is a muti-racial society, not a multi-cultural one. If it
were multi-cultural, it would be like Canada with French and English on
everything. As long as one culture dominates, multi-culturalism is false.
Multiculrtuarlism was and can never survive in any country becuase some
group always want to be heard or wants their culture to be supreme.
That's the beauty of multi-racial/multi-cultural societies. The levers
of control over the masses becomes diluted and complex for those that
want to consolidate public opinion. People like Farrakan and Moon will
always be on the fringes.
That's an creative idea, but that's not how contending human groups
work. When you talk of societies, cultures, and politics, you are
talking about hard-wired human behaviors. What actually happens is
that larger minorities make bids for domination, resources and
political, because there is no existing mainstream majority with the
ability to impose peace and lawfulness on all. If needed, they will
ally with weaker minorities, with promises and limited participation.

The point there is that, one way or another, some group is going to
dominate the others. There is no such thing as a "multicultural"
society. All you really do is create the conditions for conflict and
hatred, in which that group which does not entertain "multicultural"
ideas struggles successfuly to dominate those who do.
cameron
2003-09-23 16:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcus Cato
That's an creative idea, but that's not how contending human groups
work. When you talk of societies, cultures, and politics, you are
talking about hard-wired human behaviors. What actually happens is
that larger minorities make bids for domination, resources and
political, because there is no existing mainstream majority with the
ability to impose peace and lawfulness on all. If needed, they will
ally with weaker minorities, with promises and limited participation.
The point there is that, one way or another, some group is going to
dominate the others. There is no such thing as a "multicultural"
society. All you really do is create the conditions for conflict and
hatred, in which that group which does not entertain "multicultural"
ideas struggles successfuly to dominate those who do.
I'll bet on human hard-wired behavior every time. Any ethnic or
cultural majority that contends to dominate others will always fail.
There are plenty of historical examples.
Marcus Cato
2003-09-23 17:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameron
Post by Marcus Cato
That's an creative idea, but that's not how contending human groups
work. When you talk of societies, cultures, and politics, you are
talking about hard-wired human behaviors. What actually happens is
that larger minorities make bids for domination, resources and
political, because there is no existing mainstream majority with the
ability to impose peace and lawfulness on all. If needed, they will
ally with weaker minorities, with promises and limited participation.
The point there is that, one way or another, some group is going to
dominate the others. There is no such thing as a "multicultural"
society. All you really do is create the conditions for conflict and
hatred, in which that group which does not entertain "multicultural"
ideas struggles successfuly to dominate those who do.
I'll bet on human hard-wired behavior every time. Any ethnic or
cultural majority that contends to dominate others will always fail.
There are plenty of historical examples.
Always fail? Put down the joint.

In fact that is a-historical. History is more-or-less comprised tribes
and ethnic groups making successful bids to dominate others, through
war and politics and other means.
cameron
2003-09-24 06:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcus Cato
Always fail? Put down the joint.
In fact that is a-historical. History is more-or-less comprised tribes
and ethnic groups making successful bids to dominate others, through
war and politics and other means.
The dominated tribes aren't assimilated unless they want to be,
usually they end up influencing the dominant tribe over time. Human
beings are quite adaptable and tend to take the good cultural
influences and rejecting those they dislike. I expect that we may see
American G.I.'s coming home with Iraqi brides soon and perhaps a
better understanding and respect for Islam. Hopefully the Iraqi's will
get over their revulsion and start adapting to the changes the
American's have made there and make the best of it. That isn't an
endorsement of the Bush administrations foreign policy but an
acknowlegment of the way things are. Who is dominant in the
relationship between Japan/Germany and the U.S.? These days it's hard
to tell and WW2 was considered a racial and cultural conflict. What is
so different between the Jews and the Palastinians? They are both
refugees to me and the meddling of the U.S. only prolongs their
conflict.
Here, I'll pass the joint to you and you can tell me what the dominant
tribes have accomplished using force.
Steve Dufour
2003-09-24 14:57:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameron
The dominated tribes aren't assimilated unless they want to be,
usually they end up influencing the dominant tribe over time. Human
beings are quite adaptable and tend to take the good cultural
influences and rejecting those they dislike. I expect that we may see
American G.I.'s coming home with Iraqi brides soon and perhaps a
better understanding and respect for Islam. Hopefully the Iraqi's will
get over their revulsion and start adapting to the changes the
American's have made there and make the best of it. That isn't an
endorsement of the Bush administrations foreign policy but an
acknowlegment of the way things are. Who is dominant in the
relationship between Japan/Germany and the U.S.? These days it's hard
to tell and WW2 was considered a racial and cultural conflict. What is
so different between the Jews and the Palastinians? They are both
refugees to me and the meddling of the U.S. only prolongs their
conflict.
Here, I'll pass the joint to you and you can tell me what the dominant
tribes have accomplished using force.
Very good points.
Jason Murray - The Great One
2003-09-26 19:59:26 UTC
Permalink
It is a very good point. However, the Anglo has used force and set up world
domination of it's culture and language. Ever wonder why people need to
learn English? Ever wonder why French is not needed in most of the world?
Ever wonder why Arabic is so widespread? These are successes. It may not
be good for those who were forced to take it, but it has worked thus far.
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by cameron
The dominated tribes aren't assimilated unless they want to be,
usually they end up influencing the dominant tribe over time. Human
beings are quite adaptable and tend to take the good cultural
influences and rejecting those they dislike. I expect that we may see
American G.I.'s coming home with Iraqi brides soon and perhaps a
better understanding and respect for Islam. Hopefully the Iraqi's will
get over their revulsion and start adapting to the changes the
American's have made there and make the best of it. That isn't an
endorsement of the Bush administrations foreign policy but an
acknowlegment of the way things are. Who is dominant in the
relationship between Japan/Germany and the U.S.? These days it's hard
to tell and WW2 was considered a racial and cultural conflict. What is
so different between the Jews and the Palastinians? They are both
refugees to me and the meddling of the U.S. only prolongs their
conflict.
Here, I'll pass the joint to you and you can tell me what the dominant
tribes have accomplished using force.
Very good points.
ßÅÐŧ§
2003-09-26 22:51:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameron
The dominated tribes aren't assimilated unless they want to be,
usually they end up influencing the dominant tribe over time. Human
beings are quite adaptable and tend to take the good cultural
influences and rejecting those they dislike. I expect that we may see
American G.I.'s coming home with Iraqi brides soon and perhaps a
better understanding and respect for Islam.
Respect, hell. Every Gulf War vet I ever met, including the black ones, had
an attitude toward mooslems that could best be described as genocidal. It
didn't matter if the ragheads were Saudi, Kuwaiti, or Iraqi. The common
denominator is always the same: "They all hate America!"
Mudda Lann Newz Servus
2003-09-26 22:32:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
It is a very good point. However, the Anglo has used force and set up world
domination of it's culture and language.
it's hard to argue with success

<Ever wonder why people need to
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
learn English?
cause it works

<Ever wonder why French is not needed in most of the world?

or the French nation ?
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Ever wonder why Arabic is so widespread?
uh................Mohammed ?
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
These are successes. It may not
be good for those who were forced to take it, but it has worked thus far.
unlike the nation of Haiti..................
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Post by Steve Dufour
Post by cameron
The dominated tribes aren't assimilated unless they want to be,
usually they end up influencing the dominant tribe over time. Human
beings are quite adaptable and tend to take the good cultural
influences and rejecting those they dislike. I expect that we may see
American G.I.'s coming home with Iraqi brides soon and perhaps a
better understanding and respect for Islam. Hopefully the Iraqi's will
get over their revulsion and start adapting to the changes the
American's have made there and make the best of it. That isn't an
endorsement of the Bush administrations foreign policy but an
acknowlegment of the way things are. Who is dominant in the
relationship between Japan/Germany and the U.S.? These days it's hard
to tell and WW2 was considered a racial and cultural conflict. What is
so different between the Jews and the Palastinians? They are both
refugees to me and the meddling of the U.S. only prolongs their
conflict.
Here, I'll pass the joint to you and you can tell me what the dominant
tribes have accomplished using force.
Very good points.
Kafou Lobo
2003-09-26 20:47:00 UTC
Permalink
What is so different between the Jews and the Palastinians?
Not much actually..... My bible says that both people are
"first cousins".
They are both refugees to me and the meddling of the U.S. only prolongs their
conflict.
While the US foreign policy has always been f*cked up and misguided, I
am not sure I am ready to dispense free passes to assholes like
Arafat and Sharon.

Israel and Palestine will either both succeed together, or they will
both perish together. It's a jacked-up dichotomy, and I wish both
peopleS would just sack their leaderships.

Kafou
Marcus Cato
2003-09-24 18:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by cameron
Post by Marcus Cato
Always fail? Put down the joint.
In fact that is a-historical. History is more-or-less comprised tribes
and ethnic groups making successful bids to dominate others, through
war and politics and other means.
The dominated tribes aren't assimilated unless they want to be,
usually they end up influencing the dominant tribe over time. Human
beings are quite adaptable and tend to take the good cultural
influences and rejecting those they dislike. I expect that we may see
American G.I.'s coming home with Iraqi brides soon and perhaps a
better understanding and respect for Islam. Hopefully the Iraqi's will
get over their revulsion and start adapting to the changes the
American's have made there and make the best of it. That isn't an
endorsement of the Bush administrations foreign policy but an
acknowlegment of the way things are. Who is dominant in the
relationship between Japan/Germany and the U.S.? These days it's hard
to tell and WW2 was considered a racial and cultural conflict. What is
so different between the Jews and the Palastinians? They are both
refugees to me and the meddling of the U.S. only prolongs their
conflict.
Here, I'll pass the joint to you and you can tell me what the dominant
tribes have accomplished using force.
<phffffftt! cough hack!>

Are you serious?

How about every successful colonial movement? How about the Irish? How
about hundreds of others?

Understand that when you're taking about domination of this kind,
you're talking about domination of a jointly claimed or occupied
territory. Might be Western Europe, might be the islands of the
Pacific Ocean, of it might be the internal territory of a
multi-racial/ethnic country.

I'd have to agree about the Jews and Palestinians and our meddling. If
you let them have at each other, isn't the equlibrium that they will
seek exactly what I was pointing out? You must get the sense, after
watching these people for years, that there will be no mutually-agreed
upon (dare I say "multicultural") resolution there. One party will
either run away, or its people be dominated and powerless.
cameron
2003-09-25 15:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcus Cato
<phffffftt! cough hack!>
Are you serious?
How about every successful colonial movement? How about the Irish? How
about hundreds of others?
Understand that when you're taking about domination of this kind,
you're talking about domination of a jointly claimed or occupied
territory. Might be Western Europe, might be the islands of the
Pacific Ocean, of it might be the internal territory of a
multi-racial/ethnic country.
I'd have to agree about the Jews and Palestinians and our meddling. If
you let them have at each other, isn't the equlibrium that they will
seek exactly what I was pointing out? You must get the sense, after
watching these people for years, that there will be no mutually-agreed
upon (dare I say "multicultural") resolution there. One party will
either run away, or its people be dominated and powerless.
The successful opposition to the walled ghettos on the west bank will
come from within the Jewish community. Most of the violence is being
generated through religious intolerance of the leadership on either
side. The majority of people want to live in peace as they did before.
Colonial movements come and go and generally consume themselves, the
outcome of their actions never resemble the original justification for
force on their part. At this point I see that some countries in Africa
are desperate for a kind of foreign intervention.
H. Reader
2003-09-23 04:01:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Actually, this is a muti-racial society, not a multi-cultural one. If it
were multi-cultural, it would be like Canada with French and English on
everything. As long as one culture dominates, multi-culturalism is false.
Multiculturalism is false under all circumstances. No society can be
multicultural, by definition, as a society is group of people who practice
the same culture.
Post by Jason Murray - The Great One
Multiculrtuarlism was and can never survive in any country becuase some
group always want to be heard or wants their culture to be supreme.
steve2000
2003-09-24 14:15:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by H. Reader
Multiculturalism is false under all circumstances. No society can be
multicultural, by definition, as a society is group of people who practice
the same culture.
If the USA didn't have Blacks, Jews, Chinese, Appalachians, Cajuns,
French, Indians, Native Americans et al et al, the USA would quite
simply not be the USA.

A world without Ray Charles, Abe Lincoln, Malcolm X, Sitting Bull,
Elvis P... shoot, it wouldn't be worth living in.

aussie steve
H. Reader
2003-09-24 17:29:49 UTC
Permalink
news:<HAPbb.16636$zA2.>
Post by steve2000
Post by H. Reader
Multiculturalism is false under all circumstances. No society can be
multicultural, by definition, as a society is group of people who practice
the same culture.
If the USA didn't have Blacks, Jews, Chinese, Appalachians, Cajuns,
French, Indians, Native Americans et al et al, the USA would quite
simply not be the USA.
Apparently you believe that *race* and *ethnicity* are
the same as *culture*.
Post by steve2000
A world without Ray Charles, Abe Lincoln, Malcolm X, Sitting Bull,
Elvis P... shoot, it wouldn't be worth living in.
See above.
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...